My experience with Kailh Box Black and Super Lube

Learning and discussion Key switches
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I’ve tried a mix of 75% Super lube Grease (21030) and 25% Super Lube oil (51004) in some Kailh Box Black, but it introduced drag in the switches, especially during off axis presses.

I tested side by side with an unlubed switch, and the unlubed was smoother and with less drag, albeit presented some spring noise.

I cleaned one switch with q-tip and isopropyl and then applied only the oil, same drag.

I see posts of people swearing by Super lube, and I’m wondering if the drag happens only with box switches.

Let’s Talk About Keyboard Lube

this comment

I’m planning to clean them with an ultrasonic bath, but I don’t know if is worth trying krytox, since for some people krytox gives the same results of superlube.

I’ll update here after the ultrasonic cleaning, in the meantime any suggestion on cleaning or successive lubing is much appreciated.

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Spray Lubing switches - A guide

But if you want save a long read, in summary - Don’t effin’ do it.

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I scrolled the linked post but it only talks about spray lubing?
I didn’t spray lube, I mixed in a jar the two lubricants and applied the mixture with a brush.

Regarding the inability of Box switches to hold lube, they might expel liquids, but I don’t think this applies here. I’m not talking about completely filling the switch with oil.

The thin layer of lube didn’t go anywhere, it just didn’t have the effect I was expecting. It was still all there, when I opened the switches to clean them.

So, the lube stays in the switch, but instead of increasing smoothness, renders the Box more scratchy…

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Gotcha. When I hear super lube I think of the spray can

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Really? People use Super Lube Grease? Honestly I never would for switches considering it’s very thick consistency.

I can definitely understand it would definitely introduce drag to the switch press, and I imagine probably a lot of drag too. Like you were plunging the stem into syrup.

This is actually pretty interesting to hear. I don’t have too much experience lubing box switches since I haven’t done it all too much, but I’d think krytox would just be fine if applied lightly :thinking:

I’ll investigate this as well in the future

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I have lubed the springs and stems very lightly with krytox 1514 VPF oil with some pretty fantastic results even on clickies

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Thanks. i would certainly be interested in your results!
I have no experience with krytox, but the 25% oil in the mix significantly lowered the viscosity of the mix…

I want to specify better some of my terms here:
The kind of drag I think you are describing, the syrup dragging effect, is not what I actually experienced.

The drag you are describing would be smooth, slippery, but slow, like using syrup or honey, a continuous, fluid effect.

What these Box present, lubed with 75% Super lube Grease (21030) and 25% Super Lube oil (51004), is similar to what you feel when washing dishes, when you rinse them, and pass the finger on the plate (you know, when checking if they’re clean, to make that squeaky sound), the finger moves but non in a continuous motion, it micro skips, with many small translations along the surface.
The feeling is not slippery, but there is no feeling of heavy resistance. It also could be described as the surface become rougher after lubing, like a micro sandblasting was applied.

It feels more like something that is happening between the surface, at the level of friction properties of materials, than a physical macro-drag, induced by excessive viscosity of the lube.
It feels as the friction coefficient was increased.

Also notable is that after a cleaning with cotton swabs and isopropyl alcol, and applying only the oil, the scratchiness persisted.
I might not have cleaned enough the switch, or it might be a lube/plastic compatibility issue.

Tomorrow the ultrasonic cleaner arrives, and I’ll be able to test more.

btw, you mean 205g0 right, as a viable option?

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All Krytox greases introduce some level of drag to a switch (MX style or otherwise) regardless of application amount which diminishes over time (assuming that the lube is displaced a bit with use). The drag is consistent however, and doesn’t introduce a stuttered press like you experienced with the SL.

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I’ve heard of people using Super Lube for switches, definitely not something I would do either. Hell I even won’t use SL for stabs anymore TBH. Although I think there may be a few very specific SL greases & oils that are close enough approximations to the oft used Krytox greases/oils by the KB community. The problem as I understand it though, is SL makes a metric shit ton of different greases/oils with a much wider range of viscosities than Krytox. With a very confusing numbering/labeling scheme to boot.

Understandable to try for people who live in areas where Krytox is very hard to get/expensive to get shipped to, but a pretty poor choice for anyone who easily acquire Krytox or Tribosys. OP I would do some more research into what SL greases is comparable to Krytox 205g0 & use that just by itself with a ultra thin application if you’re stuck with SL. Otherwise just get some Krytox 205g0, Tribosys 3204 or Tribosys 3203 IMHO.

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Which is why I use oil not grease

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True. I’ve always shied away from oil under the assumption that it will wear off shortly after application, but to be fair, I have no proof of this, and greases seem to wear off to some extent anyway. How are the long term effects of oil been in you’re experience?

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Tbh, I have the same concerns. Started using it a year and a half ago. So far so good. We’ll see

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I’ll try some 205g0 which seems to be the gold standard.

I think this is a problem of chemical properties and surfaces interactions at the micron level, not a matter of viscosity.

If you swirl a spoon in mayonnaise or maple syrup or thick honey you get three different intensities of the same feeling.
You perceive the difference in viscosity but the phenomenon is essentially the same.
This is comparable to using different viscosity of lube, if you use the “honey type” you get a sluggish switch.

Here I’m talking about a difference in quality, not quantity.
I hope this is more clear, it’s very difficult to translate in words this kind of sensations.

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Any updates?, I have the same experience as you when I used a superlube mix (same as yours with 3:1 ratio) and the drag was noticeable only when slowly clicking the switches near your ear but almost negligible when normal typing, now I was wondering if it is still worth it to buy krytox as I still have superlube for like a thousand switches.

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I ended up cleaning everything with a ultrasonic bath and using them dry….

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I had both Superlube 51004 oil and Superlube 41160 Grade 2 grease for unrelated applications so I tried mixing small quantities just to test on individual switches, but I could never get a good consistency that didn’t have issues with static friction despite the viscosity of the base oil being close to Krytox 104. Its unnoticeable if you’re typing at speed of any sort, but for the price of Tribosis/Krytox, I found it was better to stick with those for switches. Its plenty good for springs though, both bag lubed with the oil and donut dipped using the grease.

The datasheets for both are here for the oil and here for the grease.

I suspect the differences in the static friction are because Krytox is a fluorinated grease while the Superlubes are not, but I’m no material scientist/chemist.

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