Unfortunately, I paid using PayPal and they don’t allow disputes to be opened after 180 days. If I did a chargeback with my credit card company, they’d be collecting the money from PayPal — which would probably cause PayPal to close my account.
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How does this work from a legal standpoint?
RAMA WORKS position is, “no refunds”, however, a consumer protection agency may be able to influence their position. I would think someone here has a background in law that could provide guidance, even if it’s “hypothetical”.
From the US FTC “If there’s a delay shipping your order, the seller has to tell you and give you the choice of either agreeing to the delay or canceling your order for a full refund.”
From the ACCC " If you do not receive the products or services you have paid for, your first step should be to contact the business to try and resolve the problem.
If you are still having difficulty resolving the problem, contact your local state and territory consumer protection agency. They may be able to assist you in your dispute with the business."
You may be able to file a complaint with the ACCC.
This does make me wonder where GB’s sit, legally speaking - and if they need to be set-up a certain way to fall in this or that legal category…
All of this really depends on whether RAMA included some clear wording that stated “no refunds will be given” on the GB page when people placed their orders. No refund policies are legal (in most places) so long as the business clearly states that policy.
For example (emphasis mine):
"In California, retailers that won’t give a full refund or credit, allow an equal exchange, or any combination of these options, within seven days of purchase when goods are returned with a receipt, must clearly display their policy at each cash register and sales counter, or at each public entrance, or on tags attached to each item sold under the policy, or on the retail seller’s order forms, if any.
“This requirement does not apply to perishable items (like food or plants), items that are marked as final sale, goods used or damaged after purchase, custom orders, goods not returned with their original packaging, and items that can’t be resold for health reasons.” – source
If RAMA allowed customization of the keyboard orders–like choosing plate materials or color–they would probably fall under the “custom orders” clause in this policy, and wouldn’t even need to list that no refunds would be accepted.
Granted, this policy is specific to California not Australia, but I wanted to note that “no refund policies” are not in some legal gray area.
I don’t know what the etiquette is here for necro’ing posts but I just wanted to revive discussion a little to see if anyone knows what the status is other than what’s posted on the RAMAWORKS site. I’m waiting on the M65-C and I’m having trouble finding any information other than “they’ve been moved into the production queue.”
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Necroing is fine here; we figure it makes things easier to find and keep consolidated.
It’s been pretty much radio silence from RAMA aside from what they post to their socials.
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That’s rather unfortunate… I had tried to go through the chargeback process but no luck there…
Thank you for the update though - I must’ve missed the linked post in the “hmm” thread when I was skimming it.
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I’m waiting on a SEQ2 Kara and haven’t been able to get any response from emailing support. I saw that sometime in February 2024 the updates page changed from being shippted by sea to Australia to shipping by order date in batches. I mean…it’s been updated, but the lack of response from their preferred support channel doesn’t make me feel any better about the situation. I haven’t tried a chargeback - it’s been 2.5 years lol 
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Yikes 
That sucks. I feel like the response has basically been identical in the last few years and they keep pointing out that there are other group buys that are unfulfilled from 2020 as if that’s the industry norm (for all we know, it might be at the time they drafted that email template but that’s likely not the case now)
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RAMA drama update posted to Reddit. Seems employees are getting back wages and lawyers are gathering statements from people that match either of these two descriptions:
- You are a vendor who is owed money or product by RAMA WORKS and have been unable to have the transaction resolved.
- You are a customer who has paid for a product but yet to receive it within a reasonable delivery window. E.g. your group buy products have not been delivered after the expected date / you are beyond the charge-back window.
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Thanks for sharing, I might just send those lawyers a statement, falling into that second category.
It’s kinda wild - RAMA posted more CAPS production footage to Instagram after filing the paperwork to wind-down his business. Just makes me curious; is it old footage that he’s trickling out to string people along? Is he actually trying to get those made regardless of closing rama.works? Seems he wants to communicate the second one, but I have a hard time believing it at this point.
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I think the request to wind down rama works was from the employees
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/1f3px78/comment/lkhzfdt/
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Sorry to hear that; it’s definitely a bummer. 
It’s definitely this. Odd that RAMA’s fighting it at this point, but not entirely surprising.
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