What are the advantages of 205g0 over XHT-BDZ when using TX AP stabs?
I’m using XHT-BDZ with TX stabs (rev 3) and it’s fine, stem doesn’t tick and doesn’t feel sluggish, the only issue is the stem hitting the housing and causing a high pitched tick (mainly spacebar), more so as the material TX Stabs are made from seems to produce higher-pitched and louder sound.
Dielectric grease is also fine ime, and it’s much forgiving if you over lube it (and most of the people do over lube), but over time some of it may turns into a sticky liquid and leaks around, at least with my Permatex Dielectric Grease.
I’m still dialing-in an updated method, but I’ve taken to using Nyogel (767A) on stab wires, on a suggestion from @ajoflo.
It’s thick and very sticky like BDZ (maybe even more-so), but the consistency is closer to dielectric grease, being clear and smooth instead of opaque and kind of pasty. It’s easy to over-do and cause sluggishness, but so far I’ve found it very effective at mitigating wire tick. If you do over-do it like I did the first time, it will eventually work itself into more smooth and normal operation but will be gummy for a bit. (It’s also a lot cheaper than BDZ, not having any titanium content or being specialized for high-heat applications - “XHT” stands for “extra-high temperature”.)
TX stabs:
That said, I only used 205g0 on my latest build with TX stabs and I’m pretty happy with it.
I can detect a little jostling that I think a thicker treatment on the wires might cover, but none of the tick or rattle that would motivate me to take the board apart and try again. In fact, I used a super lazy method that didn’t even involve taking the stabs apart - I just brushed grease onto the 4 sides of the stem still sitting in the housings, and used the brush to deposit some on the wire still in the stem. Not the best results I’ve ever had but definitely the most satisfaction per minute spent on the task, ha.
I think it depends on how much you’re trying to eliminate stab sounds, and even what kind of switches you’re using. That is, heavy tactiles seem more forgiving than light linears when it comes to hiding imperfections in stab tuning. Silent linear builds have me spending a lot more time trying to hush the stabs than snappy tactile ones.
Well - I do have plenty. I’d be glad to send you a smaller pipette with a few stabs’ worth if you’re interested - send me a DM if you’d like to try it out.
I also picked up some NyoGel 767A a few weeks ago, and I can attest to how thick that stuff is!! I tried transferring some to a syringe with a larger gauge blunt needle for precision application/post-assembly tuning, and it SUPER viscous! I’d put it up there with the consistency of honey…
Lately, though, I have been using KineticLabs’ Carbon GS3 on the wires and GS2 on the housings of my stabs and have been really happy with this combo.
For switches, I have been playing around with this spray on Telfon dry lube from DuPont while bulk lubing switch stems to try to see if there was a noticeable difference from going the route of waiting so long for RO-59 to cure/dry. So far, I have been really impressed. There is an initial scratch that lasts only for a few key presses, but then everything is just as smooth as my switches with two or three coats of RO-59.
For springs, I still tub lube with Good Ol’ GPL105.
In the name of laziness automation I was even thinking about picking up one of these little rock polishing machines, and using that to lube my springs for me while I lube housings
I also use RO-59 on worthy but scratchy stems (Cherry mostly) but they’re more for conditioning than lubing.
A tip on XHT-BDZ: Even a smallest jar of the stuff is enough to make many boards. Use sparingly and carefully as getting it on wrong areas will deaden the stabs.
First, I use 205g0 on inner sides of stab housing. Then I put dip stab wire ends in BDZ before assembling the stab parts. You want BDZ to cover every part of wire end. If you put too much BDZ on, some will end up on move parts which will introduce undesirable friction. Net effect is stabilized key sound and feeling deadened.
Another key area to avoid lubing with BDZ is the part where wire is locked in bc BDZ will prevent the wire from turning freely.
205g0 for switches and stab housings. Very thin. GPL 106 or brushing the compressed ends with 205g0 for springs. Dielectric for stab wires and injection, though may not be needed with TX. I haven’t tried other lubes for these purposes, and I can find 205g0 too buttery. Recently, I’ve enjoyed some pretty consistent factory lube instead or switches that may only want spring and leaf lube, like the Gateron CJs (lubing fully makes it sound like a better Oil King, but is not for me - stock is super smooth) or the SP Star Melon Sodas (think I’ll leave the stems and housings alone on these, too). Someone clued me in that Loctite dielectric (not their screw locker) is better than Permatex at not separating, so I have a tube of that waiting.
Updating: I got around to trying TX AP (1.6mm) and have some thoughts.
First, I tried them completely untreated on Bakeneko (FR4). They rattled still but amazed me: relatively quiet and tuned-feeling. My Ellipse arrived (alu). I pulled them out of the Bakeneko, brushed the housings and outsides of the stems with 205g0, and installed. For about 30 minutes, this made them perfect for me, feeling crisp, with zero rattle or tic. I passed on treating the wire at all.
After enthusiastically mashing away for a while, one side of the left long shift developed rattle as if completely untreated. I also had quieted the room, so likely that one wasn’t perfect originally. Planning to either apply more 205g0 or syringe a tiny amount of Loctite dielectric.
It’s hotswap, but I don’t really want to take it all apart again, so I may do the latter. However, with how close to the wire the TPU tolerance is in the stem, I worry adding any dielectric will be too much. It seems unlikely the rattle is from inside anyway, so I’ll probably bite the bullet on the former.
You may want to look into picking up some GS3 from Kinetic Labs then. It is shipped in a syringe to begin with and has a viscosity between 205g0 and BDZ.
The stabilizers themselves may also, actually be fine, but keycaps can warp during cooling and not averse to environmental changes, so some lubing is always a good idea to compensate for these changes.
While lube will help to make parts move smoothly across one another, a certain amount of viscosity is necessary to keep them in place as well as to help dampen things like wire rattle from loosening tolerances from use or environmental factors.
Also, lube isn’t permanent, so reapplication is almost always necessary as separation occurs or redistribution from usage thins it out.
I tried brushing additional Krytox along the stems without removing, but it didn’t help, nor did injecting a little dielectric.
I took it apart. The clips were fine, but I swabbed off the existing lube from that stab, reapplied Krytox with a brush onto the housings - more generously - and brushed a small amount on the wire bend. Now it’s perfect! Really impressed with TX AP.
As a side benefit, I realized the case screws needed tightening in the process.
I don’t know about you guys, but I find my TX AP harder to tune than rev3 or rev2.
I have a lot of ticking issue on AP even after straightening the wire. Even worst on o-ring boards.
Gasket boards seems fine with them, and the best I could do was with a thin coat of BDZ + 205g0 on the wire.
Huh, I just used TX AP stabs with my Frog 8K build & they seemed to tune just as fine as the last rev. did to me. I used 206g0 instead of my usual 205g0 or 205g0 + BDZ is the only difference this time around. Maybe the APs take better to a thicker lube?
I used BDZ (TX AP rev 4) on two sets for my prototype. Pretty much no issue at all with getting them tuned. Though one I may have put a little too much on, but too late I soldered everything already . It seems to be evening itself out though. One set is for the linears and the other set is for tactiles.
Possibly, I only used the one set I got so not much sample size here. I got 3 or 4 unopened sets of APs though, I’ll pop them open in a little here & see how the wires are.
I recently picked up some High Vacuum Grease from Dow Corning just for use on stab wires because it stays put and isn’t affected by temperature variances. I also like that it doesn’t separate over time, and a little goes a long way. I go back and forth between this stuff and Nyogel 767A.
The Nyogel is almost certainly going to fix most ticking wires without making making stabs feel slow, as long as you use it conservatively like BDZ.
The HVG is similar to the Nyogel, but doesn’t feel as sticky if you get some on your fingers.
Both of these are cheaper options than BDZ, and since they are semi-clear, don’t look awful if you aren’t perfect in your application and some gets smeared on the stab housing or PCB.
The cheapest option of all, for stab wires, is the tried and true Loctite Dielectric Grease. Not all dielectric grease is created equal, so stick with Loctite, and you are going to be golden!
. It seems to be evening itself out though. One set is for the linears and the other set is for tactiles.