Not sure what it was exactly, but I lubed the PCB with 205g0, reseated all the domes, checked all the silencing rings, and put it all back together, and…happy to report: the raspiness is gone!
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If anyone’s wanting to try Deskeys/Des domes, 10% off with code XBBHBD
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i’m pretty new to the topre scene and got a stock fc660c silent and was wondering when you added another silence ring (deskey #3), did it help make the board more silent?
Sorry just came across this, would definitely be worth a try. But before doing that I recommend lubing a few of the housings and also lubing the PCB to see if that’s enough for you.
Wanted to get some advice and inputs: How feasible is it for me to construct my own Norbaforce?
I’ve got a spare CM Masterkeys Pro S, and I saw that there’s a Novatouch PCB for sale in my local aftermarket for $44 (which I’ll likely try to negotiate for lower)
I believe that the Masterkeys Pro S housing is compatible with the Novatouch PCB, given that the Norbaforce case is compatible. Furthermore, I think the Masterkeys’ JST cable can be recycled for the Novatouch (Pics source: Hi, I'm jshufelt - #79 by jshufelt)
I’m wondering how feasible is it to procure the rest of the components:
- Conical spring
- Domes (BKE, Deskey, Niz?)
- Stems/sliders (KBDfans, Niz?)
- Housings and stablizers
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Surprisingly not too crazy
Hmm, it looks like you might be starting on the wrong foot and might be confusing Norbaforce with Norbatouch.
The Norbaforce is a Norbauer case for the RF87u, whereas the Norbatouch is a Norbauer case for the Novatouch. As long as your clear on what you want to do, there is still feasibility.
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Conical springs aren’t very easy to source as they are “apart of the switch” and usually come with the PCB.
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Domes would be easy since you could get aftermarket domes via BKE redux or Deskey.
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Stems/sliders wouldn’t be terribly difficult if you want to go with KBDfans or NIZ. Between the two, I’ve heard Niz are much higher quality than KBfans.
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Housings & Stabilizers are also components that would come with the PCB/conical springs.
Ultimately the hardest components would be the conical springs and the switch housings.
In addition, if you are going for a Novatouch, you’ll need the plate which doesn’t seem to be included in your list yet.
Honestly I don’t think it’s particularly easy to go this route (Norbatouch) unless you are able to find a complete (or mostly complete) Novatouch, or simply keep it MX and go the jshuf route with the Masterkeys Pro S.
Alternatively instead of a Norbatouch, you could go the Norbaforce route which you could complete by simply buying a complete realforce.
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It looks like you can buy Niz housings, but I don’t know if they come with their conical springs.
Based on experiences from other users you are correct. A buddy if mine is building the EC corne and had to cannibalize a board for the springs.
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niz should have the 1u housings+sliders AND the conical springs (don’t quote me on this; you can ask niz for the conical springs supposedly.)
if you know someone who can proxy buy for you in Japan, there is also this 1u complete package by Bit Trade One: the ADELCPS “capacitance switch” 10x 1u switch sets. unfortunately for me in the US, relying on third party buying services sounds really sketch–i don’t want to give tenso.com my address and drivers license?? just to shop, wtf. if we have any keebtalkers willing to do a group buy on that, i’m so in for a few of those Bit Trade One slider packs.
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You’re making me want to learn kicad and pump out a GH60 compatible EC pcb/plate. Thought I’d probably cannibalize a 660c for it and stick with topre housings/sliders
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Thank you for the clarification (Norbaforce vs Norbatouch) and in-depth explanation of the necessary components. Overall it seems like it’s better off getting a Topre keyboard from the get-go rather than scouring for each individual component. Coming from a more MX-background, this is definitely quite foreign territory for me haha
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Now that I (thankfully) finally have my BKE v1 domes, I want to go all-out on my poor HHKB. I have a batch of Type-S sliders without rings, would Deskeys’ #5 be closest to the “original feel”? How are their gaskets, as well?
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no data re: the des gaskets but i am a fan of the #5 rings. #2 and #3 is still too loud for my liking, even when you stack the thinner rings it doesn’t sound the same IMO.
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Maybe somewhat of a stupid question but has anyone tried to warranty a realforce/hhkb board that has been taken apart? From what I understand, the “warranty void if removed” stickers aren’t enforceable in the US anymore.
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I have their gaskets on my Realforces. They feel like a bit of a misnomer, though technically I suppose they are gaskets. They’re great if you’re sensitive to the decreased key travel that happens when you use silencing rings with sliders that are not the Type-S ones. I also like them because they stop lube from smearing all over the PCB from my stabilisers, but I don’t think they particularly add to the overall typing feeling in the same way gaskets do when they’re part of the mounting system.
They theoretically do tighten the fit between the screws, rubber dome sheets, PCB, and plate/sliders by adding a bit of thickness to the layers, but for me the practical effects are imperceptible. I haven’t noticed much of an effect on acoustics either, the rings do more for that.
If you already have PFU-manufactured Type-S sliders you shouldn’t need the Deskeys gaskets as they already compensate for the thickness of the silencing rings. It might save you a bit of trouble as well as they are a bit fiddly to apply.
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That’s good to know. My goal is to make my HHKB into something I can take to class, and I can’t exactly do that if it’s loud enough to be distracting, and repairing my weird situation with new rings and a fresh coat of lube sounds like the best option.
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I can’t figure out why my 45g boards don’t feel as good as my other Topre boards. Insights much appreciated.
Specs (both are in their stock housings and keycaps)
FC660C factory silenced
HHKB Pro Classic unsilenced but added Des #5 “the original”
I do not gravitate to these boards primarily bc the 45g dome weight is tiring for extended typing sessions. I much prefer my 30g and 55g stock, 35g Des Tiffanies (albeit the sound is not as good as stock domes), and I type at an OK clip on my 91U that has variable weighting.
I don’t exactly want to give up on 45g but I’m going nuts trying to figure out why my typing comfort drops with those two boards above. I also don’t understand why the all-gray Leopold keycaps feel taller compared to the Realforce TKL (R1 and R2) and HHKB caps. Of all my boards the two above gaslight me the most. Pre-compression due to the shorter length of black sliders with #5 rings doesn’t bother me–I use that on my 91U (variable) and 87U (55g) and I type comfortably on those boards. But on the HHKB with the same slider setup, it feels harder to maintain my WPM.
I’m new to HHKB as well so maybe the plastic plate just offers a different typing feel overall. Let me know what you think and how I should proceed with the mods for the two boards above.
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It’s funny how many small factors impact our perceived typing feel. I’m especially surprised that the 45g is more tiring for you than the 55g. After a day of typing on my 87U 55g, my wrists go on break, whereas my 660C is fine. Regardless of the domes, if I’m switching back a forth from MX to Topre, going to Topre always feels slower and more tiring until I adjust – that’s why while bouncing between different MX boards on a daily basis if fine, I give myself a good week when rotating in Topre.
I wonder if you limited the variables between the boards to a minimum, you could determine if it’s actually the domes alone that are putting you off (easier said than done, I realize). I wonder if its a combo of plate materials and keycaps as you suggested, or even typing angles.
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I have a JIS HHKB Hybrid Type-S modded up the ass with 205g0, tape modded (pcb and keycaps, don’t ask about that), sorbothane, anti-vibration mat, burger mounted in the back to prevent flex from the sorbothane inside (also for my OCD), and with 45g Leopold domes that are like 3-4 years old: the mfer is perfect. It legit has gotten me out of the keeb game, basically.
I also have a Realforce R2 with 55g domes and a Heavy-9 FC980C with BKE lights and both are so stiff and heavy compared to the 45g that I can’t really use them as daily drivers.
I was going to say something about the plate, but it looks like you’re having trouble with both the 660c and HHKB. Maybe it has something to do with typing angle or something, since you mention the keycap height of the 660c. Maybe the layout? I know the JIS HHKB has a different ZXC row stagger, is it the same with the standard HHKB?
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Don’t Leopold keycaps actually have a different profile vs. Topre? Though, I thought SS2 was shorter overall than Topre.
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